r/keto “guy in medical field’s” bullshitorama about a ketogenic diet

My first and foremost quarrel is your assertions that exogenous glucose is required – you have made an absolutely fundamental error that is easily disproven, from there we were always going to pick apart the rest of the dissertation, and as you can see several of us were able to render most of your arguments completely false or at best wayward.

This isn’t an attack, but folk like me are sick to death of stuff like this being distributed as fact with the authority of someone who is learning/has learnt this stuff from an apparently reputable source – as you can see much of what you learned is completely wrong, and this is the kind of misinformation people like us have to deal with on a daily basis – so excuse my terseness.

I admit I was a bit hasty in my conclusions but I was only concerned about his well being.

First problem – this is like some random person telling me I need to eat hearthealthywholegrains and fruits and stuff to survive, I already know they’re full of shit – even if they don’t know it. Basically all of your health concerns for this fellow are so badly wrong that I wonder where on Earth people are being taught this crap.

sure there are molecules like ADP which has nothing to do with the topic of conversation. What I think you meant to say was that we can use fats proteins and carbs as electron donors to synthesize ATP.

Much of the further discussion of nitty-gritty was – like you were trying – on a very basic level. I don’t pretend to be qualified in any way whatsoever, but I can pick apart the work of professionals in the field and even understand most of what /u/hullaballooza said – it was about chicks, right?

Well then what good is glycogen if it is not releasing glucose when we are in deficiency as in a ketotic state. We need to maintain blood sugar so that even when we are in ketosis (which the brain utilizes ketones for 75% of energy) we still require some glucose (read: the other 25% of energy).

Firstly, it’s not a deficiency – don’t call it that. The rest you are just re-iterating exactly what I said.

Yea? and where did these lactate/pyruvate molecules come from? From glucogenic amino acids via transaminases (although I concede may be supplemented via protein in the diet)

Again it’s a simplification, point is using muscle tissue IS NOT the primary source of GNG, I wish the scare tactics about this would go away and die.

Actually its called B-oxidation. I believe you are a few too many steps down the energy production pathway.

Right, I was combating your use of “degradation”, that makes it sound like it’s a damaging pathway when what we’re talking about is energy liberation.

Yes they are a source of energy in a pinch but why are they produced? When you have excessive b-oxidation from lipids without concurrent lipid synthesis you build up an excess of NADH and ATP. This causes a negative feedback inhibiting the cycle and you end up with too much. If it was all being “burned off” it you would just be creating more ATP and wont be making ketones. The acetyl-CoA goes through a condensation reaction and turned into the ketone in order to remove it from the cell and this sure sounds like a waste product to me (but then again you have learned to think for yourself and dont need education).

Sorry but I think you’re using words like “excess” out of context, and again it paints the wrong picture. I would try to remove the positive/negative language from your assertions, much of the time metabolism just is what it is – applying a label like “excess” or “deficiency” indicates a pathological state which in all likelihood does not exist, and is borderline alarmist. Think of cholesterol and the arbitrary numbers applied to that – and the dangers of the drugs they tell you to take in order to get your numbers lower than “excess”.

By the way ketosis and ketoacidosis are qualities of the same spectrum the only difference is that ketosis is the situation of having ketones balanced by bicarbonate in the blood.

This is where you will get loads of grief if you actually say that to anyone who actually knows the ins and outs of ketosis. I won’t bother to say much apart from you are basically calling having a drink of water and drowning the same thing, it’s a really silly position to take when you’ve actually researched it.

Whereas ketoacidosis is where ketones has overcome the balancing act. I am sure this is an oversimplification but this is my quarrell with the diet. Why would you cause yourself to be possibly in the position of causing the latter should you overdo it a bit too much. A few pounds of weight?

Again – this is dumb, please stop even bringing up ketoacidosis, like I said it makes it clear to ANYONE here that you don’t know what you’re talking about – when you’re clearly intelligent enough to understand the pathways, sadly you’ve just been taught the wrong stuff. (BTW I don’t “do keto” for weight loss or anything, I’m just a carnivore who happens to know a bunch about it)

I also know stuff about cars – and someone mentioning ketoacidosis in the same breath as ketosis to me is like them saying they need to change their blinker fluid and claiming to be an expert on cars. I just roll my eyes and know they have no idea what they’re on about.

Furthermore my concerns are due to stresses on your liver if near 100% of your glucose yields come from GNG.

How much glucose do you think you need? Heaps of it comes simply from glycerol by freeing and oxidising dun dun daaaah – FAT. Give up the liver stress angle – you’re completely poking in the wrong angle.

Your liver is so busy with the GNG that it may have less resources to synthesize alcohol dehydrogenase and associated enzymes which may explain why you are having a decreased tolerance.

Actually, alcohol metabolism is one of the things I study even more in depth than ketosis, and I do like your theory on tolerance and will add it to my research ideas.

I use this reduction in tolerance to suggest a biomarker for liver function. If your liver is busy with an increased need for GNG what other processes is it skimping on? I would get some bloodwork done and check your coagulation levels or your albumin levels just for safety (yes i am giving concerned advice not just attacking you).

Again it’s not anywhere near as taxing on the liver as you think, especially not compared to a standard diet.

If your bloodwork is fine then by all means go ahead and enjoy your lifestyle as its healther than most Americans eat considering our obesity rate (but thats not saying much).

Well FWIW I’m not an American, but we have the same foods in Australia if that documentary Crocodile Dundee was anything to go by.

Cheers.